excerpt: 6min (2,2Mo)
Subject: RE: petition
against war
Yesterday 0:40
EdMole_myope.com
I really think it is absolutly necessary to sign this paper to transmit
it, because nobody never need to kill someone else.
Thanks a lot
EdMole
----------
Subject: petition against war
blanken_hctc.net
NO WAY am I going to sign that petition. Why should we turn the other
cheek and have thousands more Americans killed because of that hateful
bastard Bin Laden?
It's time to stop terrorism now. There is a time for everything - a
time to live, a time to die, a time for peace, and a time for war.
We had peace, the terrorists declared war on us - not the other way
around.
Paula blankenhorn >I really think it is absolutly necessary to sign
this paper to transmit it, >because nobody never need to kill someone
else.
> >Thanks a lot > >EdMole > >---------- > >Subject: petition against
war
wcaddow_fotokem.com
Absolutely not, will I sign a petition against war.
Retaliation is is necessary to re-establish the place of good versus
evil in our world. Pacifists such as yourself have no moral compass.
God permits and encourages the proper order to be restored by punishment
even here on earth. Yes, it is true that He will judge all later, but
until that time it is our charge to right, as best we can, this terrible
evil that has been perpetrated on our country.
It was Ghandi who encouraged the Jews to non-violently and passively
resist their impending doom at the hands of Hitler. Little good it did
them.
As it says in Ecclesiastes, "there is a time for war, and a time for
peace". God has always known this.
Oh, and by the way, I don't really care if UN decides to condemn our
going to war or not. And who are you to make 'demands' sir.
And another thing - for those of you who believe in the silly notion
that 'violence begets more violence', I ask, "What violence prompted
the violence that was visited upon us this past week?"
Please remove me from your list and stop disseminating your ridiculous
rhetoric.
Wally Caddow
> I really think it is absolutly necessary to sign this paper to transmit
it, > because nobody never need to kill someone else. > > Thanks a lot
> > EdMole > > ---------- > > Subject: petition against war
scooke_pacbell.net > I really think it is absolutly necessary to sign
this paper to transmit it, > because nobody never need to kill someone
else. > > Thanks a lot > > EdMole
I'll pass on this one. Terrorism is a world wide scourge and must be
stopped.
Suzy
JohnDeBord-Illustrator_gmx.net
Ed.........please try to keep the politics off the list here .......
I am sure, like myself, some would disagree with u
John De Bord
http://gallery.passion4art.com/members/johndebord/index.html
"Art doesn't just happen, You make it happen."~~ Nita Leland
> I really think it is absolutly necessary to sign this paper to transmit
it, > because nobody never need to kill someone else. > > Thanks a lot
> > EdMole > > ---------- > > Subject: petition against war
EdMole_myope.com
I am sorry but if you all alf north americans think THIS is just politics,
you are wrong. This willl be our lives for ten years. Not for everybody
of course, the more it will last, the more there will be billions of
dead people this time.
I, as well as you, really hate fanatism, but don't you read there lips
? Bin and Bush use the same language ! they both talk about good, god
and evil. If your president go strong and make the most little mistake...
Lots of people in those areas live in war for more than 20 years now,
it's been only one week for you. Can you imagine how desesperate they
are.
Do you think they are even afraid of what Bush says ? They might really
be so happy. They have done one of the most horrible but beautiful thing
ever happend. I read that new yorkers already start to make some bussiness
on this event ! Incroyable !!!!
Of course there will be a war now, and we all get bombs in our car.
It is easier than crashing planes. Anybody can do a bomb.
EdMole
> > Ed.........please try to keep the politics off the list here .......
I am > sure, like myself, some would disagree with u > John De Bord
so, we can only talk when we are agree !!! that's tolerance and not
fanatism for sure !!!
xxxxxx_esatclear.ie
Ed,
I don't mean to be insensitive in light of recent events, but _please_
- politics, emotions, terrorism... this list is not the place for such
discussions. There are fora established to discuss this attrocity. Your
comments will be welcome there and I'm sure your discussions will be
much more productive.
Regards, -Ross
Val_blackiss.com
>Ed, > > > >I don't mean to be insensitive in light of recent
>events, but _please_ - politics, emotions, >terrorism... this list
is not the place for such >discussions.
Agree.
Way OT for this list. There are plenty of places that this would be
appropriate.
EdMole_myope.com
i just thought artists as "webartists" would be more progressive and
tolerant.
I'll stop with you about that.
EdMole
> > Ed, > > > > I don't mean to be insensitive in light of recent
> events, but _please_ - politics, emotions, > terrorism... this list
is not the place for such > discussions. There are fora established
to discuss > this attrocity. Your comments will be welcome there > and
I'm sure your discussions will be much more > productive. > > Regards,
> -Ross
xxxxxx_esatclear.ie
Ed,
> i just thought artists as "webartists" > would be more progressive
and > tolerant.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm sure we have some common sentiments on
recents events. However, I'm on various lists receiving several hundred
mails per day. My concern is that my mail folders simply become huge.
Cheers,
-Ross
blanken_hctc.net
The attack on the World Trade Building, the Pentagon, and the aborted
crash on the 3-mile island atomic plant is the same as the attack on
Pearl Harbor by the Japanese.
There is no discussion as to who speaks the same politics - these madmen
killed thousands of innocent people for one cause - their hatred and
jealousy of the US.
Americans went into World War II because of Pearl Harbor, now it's because
of these current events. We didn't initiate the war - they did.
So, quit the philosophy and open your eyes to the one thing here -
Americans are as enraged to the attack on us in NYC and Washington as
to the attack on Pearl Harbor. If we don't stop these terrorists, it
will continue.
So quit your cowardly discussions on this list.
Paula Blankenhorn
At 11:57 AM 09/18/2001 +0200, you wrote:
>I am sorry but if you all alf north americans think THIS is just politics,
>you are wrong. This willl be our lives for ten years. Not for everybody
of >course, the more it will last, the more there will be billions of
dead >people this time. > >I, as well as you, really hate fanatism,
but don't you read there lips ? Bin >and Bush use the same language
! they both talk about good, god and evil. If >your president go strong
and make the most little mistake... Lots of people >in those areas live
in war for more than 20 years now, it's been only one >week for you.
Can you imagine how desesperate they are. > >Do you think they are even
afraid of what Bush says ? They might really be >so happy. They have
done one of the most horrible but beautiful thing ever >happend. I read
that new yorkers already start to make some bussiness on >this event !
Incroyable !!!! > >Of course there will be a war now, and we all get
bombs in our car. It is >easier than crashing planes. Anybody can do
a bomb. > > >EdMole > >> >> Ed.........please try to keep the politics
off the list here ....... I am >> sure, like myself, some would disagree
with u >> John De Bord > >so, we can only talk when we are agree !!!
that's tolerance and not fanatism >for sure !!! >
helenbyrne_hotmail.com
i knew this would happen :( >I am sorry but if you all alf north americans
think THIS is just politics, >you are wrong. This willl be our lives
for ten years. Not for everybody of >course, the more it will last,
the more there will be billions of dead >people this time. > >I, as
well as you, really hate fanatism, but don't you read there lips ? >Bin
>and Bush use the same language ! they both talk about good, god and
evil. >If >your president go strong and make the most little mistake...
Lots of people >in those areas live in war for more than 20 years now,
it's been only one >week for you. Can you imagine how desesperate they
are. > >Do you think they are even afraid of what Bush says ? They might
really be >so happy. They have done one of the most horrible but beautiful
thing ever >happend. I read that new yorkers already start to make some
bussiness on >this event ! Incroyable !!!! > >Of course there will be
a war now, and we all get bombs in our car. It is >easier than crashing
planes. Anybody can do a bomb. > > >EdMole > > > > > Ed.........please
try to keep the politics off the list here ....... I >am > > sure, like
myself, some would disagree with u > > John De Bord > >so, we can only
talk when we are agree !!! that's tolerance and not >fanatism >for sure !!!
helenbyrne_hotmail.com
the timing of this is woefull. >I really think it is absolutly necessary
to sign this paper to transmit it, >because nobody never need to kill
someone else. > >Thanks a lot > >EdMole > >---------- > >Subject: petition
against war
mabram_balance.com.au
i think that you all know that ed mole has always been welcome on this
list and i don't believe he should be made unwelcome because some people
can't deal with what is a perfectly reasonable point of view. i don't
recall too many artists, whether they be web artists or pablo picassos,
who approved of violence for whatever reason.
and i agree with ed that it never hurts to be reminded of the political
implications of art.
- michael a
Ross Lynch wrote:
> > I don't mean to be insensitive in light of recent > events, but
_please_ - politics, emotions, > terrorism... this list is not the place
for such > discussions. There are fora established to discuss > this
attrocity. Your comments will be welcome there > and I'm sure your discussions
will be much more > productive. >
mabram_balance.com.au
i think that you all know that ed mole has always been welcome on this
list and i don't believe he should be made unwelcome because some people
can't deal with what is a perfectly reasonable point of view. i don't
recall too many artists, whether they be web artists or pablo picassos,
who approved of violence for whatever reason.
and i agree with ed that it never hurts to be reminded of the political
implications of art.
- michael a
mabram_balance.com.au
ed, ignore them they are fuckwits. no concept of art in any way at all.
- michael a
> > i just thought artists as "webartists" would be more progressive
and > tolerant. > > I'll stop with you about that. > > EdMole
xxxxxx_esatclear.ie
Michael,
> i think that you all know that ed mole > has always been welcome on
this > list and i don't believe he should be > made unwelcome because
some > people can't deal with what is a > perfectly reasonable point
of view.
You obviously don't understand _why_ my mail was sent. This list is
a forum for art discussion. No one suggested that Ed leave the list
for gawds' sake! It's possible to participate in more than one list
at once, you know?
Ed is not unwelcome. Certainly not from my perspective. He is most welcome.
I mailed him off-list to clarify why my mail was sent. If I wanted mails
on politics in my mail box, I'd sign up for a list that dealt with said
topic.
This has nothing to do with dealing with a point of view; lest it be
a point of view regarding whether politcally flavoured mails should
be sent to this inappropriate forum.
> i > don't recall too many artists, whether > they be web artists or
pablo > picassos, who approved of violence for > whatever reason.
You're missing the point entirely and I don't 'get' where this came
from? Are you suggesting that because I am of the opinion that mail
dealing with politics should not be sent to lists for art, that I in
some way endorse or condone violence? I sincerely hope not!
- Ross
JohnDeBord-Illustrator_gmx.net
Oh I do agree with art can have significance but I do not view with
his view that we should simply do nada.....Time to pay the piper Bin
Laden!
Now ON TOPIC.............does anyone on here by chance use BOTH Paintssop
Pro 7 and Photoshop 6......if ya do I have a question for ya :)
John De Bord
http://gallery.passion4art.com/members/johndebord/index.html
"Art doesn't just happen, You make it happen."~~ Nita Leland
> i think that you all know that ed mole has always been welcome on
this > list and i don't believe he should be made unwelcome because
some > people can't deal with what is a perfectly reasonable point of
view. i > don't recall too many artists, whether they be web artists
or pablo > picassos, who approved of violence for whatever reason. >
> and i agree with ed that it never hurts to be reminded of the political
> implications of art. > > - michael a > > Ross Lynch wrote: > > > >
> I don't mean to be insensitive in light of recent > > events, but
_please_ - politics, emotions, > > terrorism... this list is not the
place for such > > discussions. There are fora established to discuss
> > this attrocity. Your comments will be welcome there > > and I'm
sure your discussions will be much more > > productive. > >
webmaster_xslf.com
Ask ahead :-)
>does anyone on here by chance use BOTH Paintssop > Pro 7 and Photoshop
6......if ya do I have a question for ya :)
rep_artybay.com
I do use both, but don't know much about PS 6.0.
Let me know if I can help, though.
Wendy
> Oh I do agree with art can have significance but I do not view with
his view > that we should simply do nada.....Time to pay the piper Bin
Laden! > Now ON TOPIC.............does anyone on here by chance use
BOTH Paintssop > Pro 7 and Photoshop 6......if ya do I have a question
for ya :) > John De Bord > http://gallery.passion4art.com/members/johndebord/index.html
> "Art doesn't just happen, You make it happen."~~ Nita Leland
tisxxx_knews.com
Please keep off topic posts off this list.
As an American, I don't subscribe to this list to get told how I or
my government ought to respond to the events of Sept. 11. It is especially
galling that they posts are coming from non-U.S. posters.
So, I say again. Take it somewhere else.
Ed Tisxxx
> > Please keep off-topic posts off this list. >
robbinblue_yahoo.com
Kind of ironic that an act of terrorism generates more discussion, argument,
opinions, etc than any other else I've seen on this list....
Just an idea: Take this energy and actually use it for something positive!
(maybe art?)
just my two cents
robin
robbinblue_yahoo.com
www.robinart.com
scooke_pacbell.net
> Please keep off topic posts off this list. > > As an American, I don't
subscribe to this list to get told how I or my > government ought to
respond to the events of Sept. 11. It is especially > galling that they
posts are coming from non-U.S. posters. > > So, I say again. Take it
somewhere else. > > Ed Tisxxx
The idea of war does not make me happy. But neither does the idea of
terrorists of various stripes including Basques, IRA, Osuma Benladen
or others of that ikl having their Hitler/PolPot programs realized.
I am a radical centerist neither fascist right nor knee jerk left. I
am proud of how within my country we learned from the mistake of interning
the Japanese-Americans and are speaking out against the very idea of
attacking innocent Arab-Americans and hate crimes against them in retaliation.
God Bless America.
Suzy
asprogis_iprimus.ca
judgement day
Ed give me a hand
I've supported you in the past the pricks at topica say I'm not on the
list I've been on it longer than you give me a hand and get my message
on the list
SPROG
here is no need to be against anything
this is judgment day, now make a judgment
are you for life or against life
the dead rising from the grave is impossible
what is happening is all the sins of our forefathers have risen for
us to make a judgment
are you for life or against life
don't let religion cloud your mind
don't let ideals cloud your mind
don't let wealth cloud your mind
don't even let art cloud your mind
it is simple the bullshit bubble has burst and the smell is all over
those who have lost
everything that worked for them now works against them
there is nothing you can change except yourself
the only power is the power to change yourself
life's magic will not stop no matter what we do or don't do
remember every last person has never asked to be here
we find ourselves here and wonder why
simply to continue life
nothing more and nothing less
Arnold Sprogis
aka SPROG
do a search on my name
rep_artybay.com
Re: petition against war
Folks,
All of us have our opinions on events and most of the points are valid
and need careful consideration and study. I'm subscribed to about 40
different lists. If all the lists discussed the WTC/Pentagon tragedy,
nothing else would be discussed. There are lists just for that purpose.
As a web artist, I put some graphics on my home page and am actively
promoting this site for free memorial graphics from a UK "cousin:" http://www.dax.uk.com/Memorial/memgraphics.htm
I have very strong opinions about the tragedy so set up a board via
proboards.com for my friends via my web site at http://www.iredell.net
. I don't mention it on lists other than to tell people where they can
go to post their opinions. The point of this is to keep the lists on
topic. We don't want to force the list owners to have to ban people
or moderate posts in order to keep the lists on topic and functional.
One can't forceopinions on anyone anyway whether one is right or not.
That's not what this list is about.
Wendy Loveless
jmiles222_home.com
> >Please keep off topic posts off this list. > >As an American, I don't
subscribe to this list to get told how I or my >government ought to
respond to the events of Sept. 11. It is especially >galling that they
posts are coming from non-U.S. posters. > >So, I say again. Take it
somewhere else. > >Ed Tisxxx>
Test before I go into major rant mode.
Jeff M
--
jmiles222_home.com
>At 11:41 AM -0400 9/18/01, Ed Tisxxx wrote: >> >>Please keep off topic
posts off this list. >> >>As an American, I don't subscribe to this
list to get told how I or my >>government ought to respond to the events
of Sept. 11. It is especially >>galling that they posts are coming from
non-U.S. posters. >> >>So, I say again. Take it somewhere else. >> >>Ed
Tisxxx>> > > Test before I go into major rant mode.
Well, I see that went through so on with the rant.
Ed T., non-U.S. posters? Get a friggen clue. One of the reasons this
tragedy is so important to the world is that just about every county
in the world was represented in those buildings. Also people from all
over the world lost their lives. It was almost the equivalent of bombing
the United Nations. I can forgive your want to keep the list on topic,
but not bigotry.
Jeff M.....living in the great ol' U.S.of A.
--
Chris_zeppelindesigns.com
A Personal Memorial - by Chris McLean
Hey guys, I just joined this list, its my first post and all..... I
thought I would post up a memorial I created a few days ago, on the
15th.... With all that has happened in NY and DC, I felt that I needed
to express myself, but I could not think of the words to do it, and
so I turned to my creative side.... This is what I have come up with:
http://www.geocities.com/liz0st
'Chris McLean
'chrizm'
kcushman_igryphon.com
Re: A Personal Memorial - by Chris McLean
A beautiful memorial. Thx for sharing.
I'm finding that my own graphic design work has been coming out very
somber, even though it's not at all related to recent events.
Kathi
>Hey guys, I just joined this list, its my first post and all..... I
thought >I would post up a memorial I created a few days ago, on the
15th.... With >all that has happened in NY and DC, I felt that I needed
to express myself, >but I could not think of the words to do it, and
so I turned to my creative >side.... This is what I have come up with:
> >http://www.geocities.com/liz0st >'Chris McLean > 'chrizm'
blanken_hctc.net
Stop It !!!
STOP IT, STOP IT , STOP IT
Why don't we all go back and discuss Viet Nam, Korea, World War I and
World War II.
Nobody goes to war on a whim...
Afghanistan's Taliban has declared war (officially) this morning on
the U.S. So... end of discussion.
So let's get back to an artist's communications' list before I decide
to cancel my membership.
Paula Blankenhorn
>Marybeth > >I agree that this was a despicable act. The perpetrators
should be >brought to trial. > >I wonder why they felt that this was
their only option. Do you think >that the US has no responsibility for
this? I didn't hear your outrage >when we killed thousands in Sudan
with our cruise missiles, or thousands >in Iraq with our planes and
sanctions, or thousands elsewhere that our >government has sponsored.
> >So let's bring the terrorists to trial, and then look in the mirror
and >bring us to trial next. > >If we as artists aren't interested in
justice then I wonder what kind of >artists we are. > >Lee Jordan >>
>> So Ed .... then YOU go bargain with the terrorists while they bomb
us all off >> the planet. What you're saying is that we should all "turn
the other cheek" >> and let them terrorize us until there's nothing
left of us. Perhaps you'd >> like to come talk to the many widows, widowers
and orphans here in NY? >> Perhaps you'd like to take care of them all
while Bin Laden laughs his evil >> ass off? Or, perhaps, after seeing
the devastation (I SAW it - firsthand ... >> living only MILES from
the site) and talking to the victims or their families >> (I sat and
folded laundry w/my best friend while we waited for the phone call >>
to let us know whether her ESU (Emergency Services Unit - elite forces)
>> husband was going to come home alive, or in a body bag, just perhaps
you >> MIGHT change your mind ?? I am one of THE most pacific people
alive - a >> living, breathing Christian who doesn't even believe in
the death penalty! >> HA! Imagine that! But this has gone on too long,
and too far. What's next? >> PARIS? ROME? THE VATICAN? LONDON? NONE
of us are safe. NONE of us. He >> will NOT stop, in the name of ALLAH,
until the West is gone and the ISLAMIC >> countries have taken over.
WE are considered Satan. They have twisted, >> contorted and demented
ideas of what Allah is all about. They are the WORST >> kind of terrorist
- for they will think nothing of dying for their religion. >> Strangely,
in the Ko'ran, it is completely wrong and against their religion >>
to kill another human being. Obviously, they are twisting the rules
to suit >> their wants. >> >> Furthermore, what has THIS petition got
to do with a Web Artist List ????? >> >> Marybeth Telloo
ILEOFVIEW_aol.com
So Ed .... then YOU go bargain with the terrorists while they bomb us
all off the planet. What you're saying is that we should all "turn the
other cheek" and let them terrorize us until there's nothing left of
us. Perhaps you'd like to come talk to the many widows, widowers and
orphans here in NY? Perhaps you'd like to take care of them all while
Bin Laden laughs his evil ass off? Or, perhaps, after seeing the devastation
(I SAW it - firsthand ... living only MILES from the site) and talking
to the victims or their families (I sat and folded laundry w/my best
friend while we waited for the phone call to let us know whether her
ESU (Emergency Services Unit - elite forces) husband was going to come
home alive, or in a body bag, just perhaps you MIGHT change your mind
?? I am one of THE most pacific people alive - a living, breathing Christian
who doesn't even believe in the death penalty! HA! Imagine that! But
this has gone on too long, and too far. What's next? PARIS? ROME? THE
VATICAN? LONDON? NONE of us are safe. NONE of us. He will NOT stop,
in the name of ALLAH, until the West is gone and the ISLAMIC countries
have taken over. WE are considered Satan. They have twisted, contorted
and demented ideas of what Allah is all about. They are the WORST kind
of terrorist - for they will think nothing of dying for their religion.
Strangely, in the Ko'ran, it is completely wrong and against their religion
to kill another human being. Obviously, they are twisting the rules
to suit their wants.
Furthermore, what has THIS petition got to do with a Web Artist List
?????
Marybeth Tello
thejordans_mediaone.net
Marybeth
I agree that this was a despicable act. The perpetrators should be brought
to trial.
I wonder why they felt that this was their only option. Do you think
that the US has no responsibility for this? I didn't hear your outrage
when we killed thousands in Sudan with our cruise missiles, or thousands
in Iraq with our planes and sanctions, or thousands elsewhere that our
government has sponsored.
So let's bring the terrorists to trial, and then look in the mirror
and bring us to trial next.
If we as artists aren't interested in justice then I wonder what kind
of artists we are.
Lee Jordan
> > So Ed .... then YOU go bargain with the terrorists while they bomb
us all off > the planet. What you're saying is that we should all "turn
the other cheek" > and let them terrorize us until there's nothing left
of us. Perhaps you'd > like to come talk to the many widows, widowers
and orphans here in NY? > Perhaps you'd like to take care of them all
while Bin Laden laughs his evil > ass off? Or, perhaps, after seeing
the devastation (I SAW it - firsthand ... > living only MILES from the
site) and talking to the victims or their families > (I sat and folded
laundry w/my best friend while we waited for the phone call > to let
us know whether her ESU (Emergency Services Unit - elite forces) > husband
was going to come home alive, or in a body bag, just perhaps you > MIGHT
change your mind ?? I am one of THE most pacific people alive - a >
living, breathing Christian who doesn't even believe in the death penalty!
> HA! Imagine that! But this has gone on too long, and too far. What's
next? > PARIS? ROME? THE VATICAN? LONDON? NONE of us are safe. NONE
of us. He > will NOT stop, in the name of ALLAH, until the West is gone
and the ISLAMIC > countries have taken over. WE are considered Satan.
They have twisted, > contorted and demented ideas of what Allah is all
about. They are the WORST > kind of terrorist - for they will think
nothing of dying for their religion. > Strangely, in the Ko'ran, it
is completely wrong and against their religion > to kill another human
being. Obviously, they are twisting the rules to suit > their wants.
> > Furthermore, what has THIS petition got to do with a Web Artist
List ????? > > Marybeth Telloo
ljr_ljonn.com
> when we killed thousands in Sudan with our cruise missiles, or thousands
> in Iraq with our planes and sanctions, or thousands elsewhere that
our > government has sponsored.
It's utterly disgusting to compare a group of radical fundamentalist
murderers to a multi-national force attempting to liberate a nation
from it's agressive dictatorial neighbor.
In any event, here is a link in an attempt to bring all this rather
ridiculous blathering back on topic:
http://www.surfstation.lu/00_dropbox/content/TB/05/
Lance J. Romanoff
http://www.ljonn.com/
dustin_ageofinfo.net
HERE HERE!! ENOUGH!!
Dustin Mauss
>Marybeth > >I agree that this was a despicable act. The perpetrators
should be >brought to trial. > >I wonder why they felt that this was
their only option. Do you think >that the US has no responsibility for
this? I didn't hear your outrage >when we killed thousands in Sudan
with our cruise missiles, or thousands >in Iraq with our planes and
sanctions, or thousands elsewhere that our >government has sponsored.
> >So let's bring the terrorists to trial, and then look in the mirror
and >bring us to trial next. > >If we as artists aren't interested in
justice then I wonder what kind of >artists we are. > >Lee Jordan >>
>> So Ed .... then YOU go bargain with the terrorists while they bomb
us all off >> the planet. What you're saying is that we should all "turn
the other cheek" >> and let them terrorize us until there's nothing
left of us. Perhaps you'd >> like to come talk to the many widows, widowers
and orphans here in NY? >> Perhaps you'd like to take care of them all
while Bin Laden laughs his evil >> ass off? Or, perhaps, after seeing
the devastation (I SAW it - firsthand ... >> living only MILES from
the site) and talking to the victims or their families >> (I sat and
folded laundry w/my best friend while we waited for the phone call >>
to let us know whether her ESU (Emergency Services Unit - elite forces)
>> husband was going to come home alive, or in a body bag, just perhaps
you >> MIGHT change your mind ?? I am one of THE most pacific people
alive - a >> living, breathing Christian who doesn't even believe in
the death penalty! >> HA! Imagine that! But this has gone on too long,
and too far. What's next? >> PARIS? ROME? THE VATICAN? LONDON? NONE
of us are safe. NONE of us. He >> will NOT stop, in the name of ALLAH,
until the West is gone and the ISLAMIC >> countries have taken over.
WE are considered Satan. They have twisted, >> contorted and demented
ideas of what Allah is all about. They are the WORST >> kind of terrorist
- for they will think nothing of dying for their religion. >> Strangely,
in the Ko'ran, it is completely wrong and against their religion >>
to kill another human being. Obviously, they are twisting the rules
to suit >> their wants. >> >> Furthermore, what has THIS petition got
to do with a Web Artist List ????? >> >> Marybeth Telloo
thejordans_mediaone.net
Paula
Yes, let's ignore the world as we have been doing for years, let our
government continue to kill thousands of innocents and have more of
these tragic events take place. And when someone posts a petition let's
shut him down and complain because he isn't American.
They declare war so stop the talk. Maybe nobody you know will be involved.
I only have a brother and a brother-in-law in the military. This is
why the government gets away with murder in other countries. Because
people don't want to hear that their government does this kind of stuff.
It's too unpleasant to bear.
And the bombings in the Sudan are not so old as to be ancient history.
A handful of years. But let's ignore that too. Can't possibly think
that the US might have done anything wrong. Not us. We are the ones
that rule. We are the ones that make the rules. We are the ones that
tell everyone else what to do. And if they don't like it, we can kill
them if we want to, because our citizens don't want to hear about it
and don't care. too busy being 'artists.'
Where did you get the information that the Taliban has declared war?
I can't find it on any major news services.
Personally, I vote for a large memorial sculpture at the site of the
WTC.
Lee
> > STOP IT, STOP IT , STOP IT > > Why don't we all go back and discuss
Viet Nam, Korea, World War I > and World War II. > > Nobody goes to
war on a whim... > > Afghanistan's Taliban has declared war (officially)
this morning > on the U.S. So... end of discussion. > > So let's get
back to an artist's communications' list before I decide > to cancel
my membership..
ljr_ljonn.com
> Where did you get the information that the Taliban has declared war?
I > can't find it on any major news services.
http://reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=topnews&StoryID=227886
Maybe you should read a newspaper before you resume spewing your idiocy.
dustin_ageofinfo.net
For cryin out loud! My wife was 40 blocks away from ground zero when
both planes hit, I didn't know if she was alive or dead! I was affected
and will continue to be. However, that does not mean I want to keep
hearing about it in a place reserved for webartist discussions!
Go find a discussion board that has to do with this subject and keep
it out of here.
Dustin Mauss
> > STOP IT, STOP IT , STOP IT > > Why don't we all go back and discuss
Viet Nam, Korea, World War I > and World War II. > > Nobody goes to
war on a whim... > > Afghanistan's Taliban has declared war (officially)
this morning > on the U.S. So... end of discussion. > > So let's get
back to an artist's communications' list before I decide > to cancel
my membership..
thenetworkgirlmail_thenetworkgirl.com
Well let's get back on the subject of Art then. What are the "political
implications of art? ". How does this effect you as an artist? Has the
stress and images influenced your work differently? Historically we
know that it is true that Art is most certainly influenced by tragedy
and War. Historically your images could have been banned in some countries
depending on the message you create. I had an interview with an artist
last week and he already started a piece about the tragedy, he just
couldn't get it out of his head. So what can you do with your Art to
make a difference?
Jeanavive Janssen
*TheNetworkGirl*
http://www.thenetworkgirl.com
Artist Welcome!
mabram_balance.com.au
no, i'm just suggesting that you are liing in a fools paradise if you
think art and politics are not intertwined. as such, a discussion of
politics is a discussion about art and vice versa
- micahel a
> > Michael, > > > i think that you all know that ed mole > > has always
been welcome on this > > list and i don't believe he should be > > made
unwelcome because some > > people can't deal with what is a > > perfectly
reasonable point of view. > > You obviously don't understand _why_ my
mail was > sent. This list is a forum for art discussion. No > one suggested
that Ed leave the list for gawds' > sake! It's possible to participate
in more than one > list at once, you know? > > Ed is not unwelcome.
Certainly not from my > perspective. He is most welcome. I mailed him
> off-list to clarify why my mail was sent. If I > wanted mails on politics
in my mail box, I'd sign up > for a list that dealt with said topic.
> > This has nothing to do with dealing with a point of > view; lest
it be a point of view regarding whether > politcally flavoured mails
should be sent to this > inappropriate forum. > > > i > > don't recall
too many artists, whether > > they be web artists or pablo > > picassos,
who approved of violence for > > whatever reason. > > You're missing
the point entirely and I don't 'get' > where this came from? Are you
suggesting that > because I am of the opinion that mail dealing with
> politics should not be sent to lists for art, that I > in some way
endorse or condone violence? I sincerely > hope not! > > - Ross >
robbinblue_yahoo.com
Hello. Every list that I am on from IT issues to art to my work related
intranet list has succumbed to division, animousity and a clear disregard
of others' feelings and opinions.
Americans (and others) are no longer if even attempting to tolerate
each others' differences. I selfishly grieve for my lost country almost
as much as for my friends and family who are affected.
While I respect everyone's various issues and opinions, I cease to respect
people who can not at least be civil towards one another. Politics can
be constructly talked about in the context of art. Geez, wonder how
much art was lost in the destruction?!? What happens to art grants in
times of crisis? Will there be great works of art created out of this
mess(a new 'guernica' perhaps)? Personally, I am feeling the need to
start painting again after a 6 month hiatus. As an painter, I know that
my painting will be different. I don't know how yet.
If you've read this, then I thank you.
Peace be with you in these troubled times,
robin
robbinblue_yahoo.com
www.robinart.com
=====
robbinblue_yahoo.com
www.robinart.com
thejordans_mediaone.net
Once more an uninformed American speaks, showing all that he does not
understand what he is reading. The article CLEARLY states quote: Officials
of the Islamic movement moved quickly to say that the deputy chairman
of the Taliban Council of Ministers, Mullah Mohammad Hassan Akhond,
was not in a position to declare a holy war, or jihad, and a final decision
lay with a council of clerics due to convene this week.
Yes, I only liooked at AP and the NY Times online. Since they don't
have any real information I guess that I should change my reading.
Lee
> > > Where did you get the information that the Taliban has declared
war? I > > can't find it on any major news services. > > http://reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=topnews&StoryID=227886
> > Maybe you should read a newspaper before you resume spewing your
idiocy.o
robbinblue_yahoo.com
(snip)
How does this effect you as an artist?
> Has the stress and images influenced your work differently?
Hello
Yes, this incident does affect me as an artist. After working primarily
with digital art and creating tshirts (commercial art), I am finding
the NEED to get back to my primary form of expression, painting. Prior
to this incident, I had not painted in almost 6 months which is a very
LONG time for me. To be honest, I was in a real dry spell.
At this point, I don't know how it will affect me. In the week prior
to this incident, I had worked out a commission for a bright funky ('happy')
painting. It's going to be very hard to do.
Thanks for the good questions :)
robin
=====
robbinblue_yahoo.com
www.robinart.com
mabram_balance.com.au
yes, well done. perhaps there is an artist somewhere who can have a
more profound effect upon humanity with his or her response to this
tragedy than the current top of the pops response of killing a few thousand
tea-towels heads will.
- michael a
Today 1:31
thejordans_mediaone.net
Oh dear
Now I have to go and explain myself to 'artists.'
My statements are part of my art. Performance, spoken word, visual.
Many types. By placing my art here before fellow artists, I did not
think that I would be censored. Nor have to explain myself. Last time
I heard of censorship it wasn't artist to artist.
Do you not understand contemporary post-modernism? These elements are
at use in galleries and schools around the world. Maybe it's time this
list did, too. because it is not in a gallery it doesn't qualify?
Do I now need your permission to continue?
Lee
> > There is a MAJOR difference between wanting to keep a mailing list
ON TOPIC > by suggesting you go to a forum or list that is ON TOPIC
than it is to just > close our ears and ignore the situation. > > No
one is claiming to want to ignore the situation they just don't want
to > hear it from THIS SOURCE. > > Instead of trying to make them seem
like children blocking out the monsters > you just ended up making yourself
look like an idiot.d
PSE-ML_mail.professional.org
At 14:13 2001-09-18 -0700, Lee & Alexandra wrote:
>Paula
I'm with you Paula.
FTR folks, another old webmonster list (THIS list used to be a webmonster
list before it was moved to topica) was summarily closed late last week
after it was overrun by political banter. Unlike this list, it actually
had topical material appearing on it with a reasonable clip (this list
seems to have degraded long ago into a board for self-promotion, rather
than discussion about technique or anything broadly useful).
Keep pressing it here, and I'll wager THIS list will dissappear in the
same puff of digital smoke.
>Yes, let's ignore the world as we have been doing for years, let our
>government continue to kill thousands of innocents and have more of
There are forums for this sort of thing - it's great that people want
to discuss it and look at alternatives or whatever -- just go to where
it is appropriate to do such things, and where the WHOLE audience is
there for it. You'll have an even bigger soapbox to stand on, if that's
what gets you off.
THIS forum is about webartists, not terrorism, politics, or current
events.
>of stuff. It's too unpleasant to bear.
It's only unpleasant to see it in every corner of the web. Believe it
or not, while many of us feel moved by the tragic events that occurred
last week, and which continue to unfold, we realize that our families,
landlords, employers, etc, aren't all going to say "oh, yea, no problem
- why don't you drop EVERYTHING and just tune into this - you can get
your work done a few months from now, and don't worry about paying the
rent or the utility bill, etc". Ain't going to happen - life goes on,
and so should the webartist list. AS the webARTIST list - not as a political
soapbox.
If you wanted to chat up a storm about murder and wholesale death, would
you do it at parent-teacher night at your childs preschool?
When you're at a friend's home and suddenly have an urge to take a dump,
do you do it in the middle of their living room, or do you find a bathroom?
There's a place for everything. This place is for WEBARTISTS.
>Where did you get the information that the Taliban has declared war?
I >can't find it on any major news services.
This forum isn't a news service. I'm sure if you read the news, you
can be nearly as informed as anyone else here.
>Personally, I vote for a large memorial sculpture at the site of the
WTC.
Finally, something remotely art related.
How unfortunate at this juncture that it isn't webart. Perhaps you're
looking for the metalartists or stonemasons lists?
- Sean (sorry, but I don't buy into the "my speech is my art" story)
Straw
---
Please DO NOT carbon me on list replies. I'll get my copy from the list.
Sean B. Straw / Professional Software Engineering Post Box 2395 / San
Rafael, CA 94912-2395
kcushman_igryphon.com
Hi,
I'm designing right now rather than working on my art, but my designs
are coming out rather somber. I seem to be drawn to darker colors and
images that have an element of chaos.
How it affects me in terms of my art is that it stopped it...my head
is filled with nothing but smoke and fire and I don't really want to
give life to those images at this time. Others may find that expressing
these complicated feelings through art helps them work their way through
them. To me, at least right now, it takes me somewhere that I don't
want to go.
I'm glad that I'm busy with web design right now because I can focus
on my clients' messages--with the news ever-present in the background--until
I'm ready to go into the dark and deal with my fears for the world.
I imagine that at some point all artists, writers and craftspersons
will have to address this through what they create, even if peripherally.
You ask a good question--what can we do with our art to make a difference.
Kathi
> >Well let's get back on the subject of Art then. What are the "political
>implications of art? ". How does this effect you as an artist? Has
the >stress and images influenced your work differently? Historically
we know >that it is true that Art is most certainly influenced by tragedy
and War. >Historically your images could have been banned in some countries
depending >on the message you create. I had an interview with an artist
last week and >he already started a piece about the tragedy, he just
couldn't get it out of >his head. So what can you do with your Art to
make a difference? > > > >Jeanavive Janssen >*TheNetworkGirl* >http://www.thenetworkgirl.com
>Artist Welcome! >
|||GRYPHON COMMUNICATIONS
831.338.0879 fax 831.338.6375
www.igryphon.com
xxxxxx_esatclear.ie
Hi all,
Just thought that I would mention that there's a forum on Yahoo for
the discussion of last weeks tragedy. It's been set up specifically
for this, so it'd be more appropriate than this list...
http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Crime/Types_of_ Crime/Terrorism/World_Trade_Center_and_Pentagon_Attack/
On another note, yeah, I agree that politics have relevance in art.
But, let's try to keep the emphasis on art rather than getting into
political arguements...
Cheers,
-Ross
thenetworkgirlmail_thenetworkgirl.com>
"I'm glad that I'm busy with web design right now because I can focus
on my clients' messages-" Katie's post made me think about this:
In the case of my boyfriend he was working on a piece for a hi-profile
client that involved planes. The client called the day of the incident
saying they did not want to use them anymore, that it would not be a
positive image.
Just an interesting tidbit on how a tragedy can effect Art.
Jeanavive Janssen
*TheNetworkGirl*
http://www.thenetworkgirl.com
Artist Welcome!
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathi Cushman [mailto:kcushman_igryphon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 5:47 PM
To: thenetworkgirlmail_thenetworkgirl.com; webartists-list
Subject: Re: Political implications of Art
Hi,
I'm designing right now rather than working on my art, but my designs
are coming out rather somber. I seem to be drawn to darker colors and
images that have an element of chaos.
How it affects me in terms of my art is that it stopped it...my head
is filled with nothing but smoke and fire and I don't really want to
give life to those images at this time. Others may find that expressing
these complicated feelings through art helps them work their way through
them. To me, at least right now, it takes me somewhere that I don't
want to go.
I'm glad that I'm busy with web design right now because I can focus
on my clients' messages--with the news ever-present in the background--until
I'm ready to go into the dark and deal with my fears for the world.
I imagine that at some point all artists, writers and craftspersons
will have to address this through what they create, even if peripherally.
You ask a good question--what can we do with our art to make a difference.
Kathi
> >Well let's get back on the subject of Art then. What are the >"political
>implications of art? ". How does this effect you as an artist? Has
the >stress and images influenced your work differently? Historically
we >know >that it is true that Art is most certainly influenced by tragedy
and >War. >Historically your images could have been banned in some countries
>depending >on the message you create. I had an interview with an artist
last week >and >he already started a piece about the tragedy, he just
couldn't get it >out of >his head. So what can you do with your Art
to make a difference? > > > >Jeanavive Janssen >*TheNetworkGirl* >http://www.thenetworkgirl.com
>Artist Welcome! >
|||GRYPHON COMMUNICATIONS
831.338.0879 fax 831.338.6375
www.igryphon.com
PSE-ML_mail.professional.org
At 16:46 2001-09-18 -0700, Kathi Cushman wrote:
>How it affects me in terms of my art is that it stopped it...my head
is >filled with nothing but smoke and fire and I don't really want to
give life >to those images at this time.
Memorials at places of grave sadness rarely offer cheery images. Dachau
(WWII German concentration camp), has a huge, grotesque metal sculpture,
showing fragmented and twisted bones and tortured souls. It brings no
joy to see it - but it does successfully convey a certain feeling of
despair and gloom - not a superficial one which you merely _see_ when
looking at it, but one which you actually _feel_ standing there looking
upon it for a short time. This perhaps allows the viewer to reach out,
and get a glimpse of the feelings what the people who lived (and died)
there had. It is a sombre method of communication, one which reaches
into your chest, and rather than caressing your heart with a gentle
touch, it grips you firmly with a cold and rough hand telling you "do
not forget me and the pain I have endured to deliver you this message.
Never let this happen again."
>Others may find that expressing these complicated feelings through
art >helps them work their way through them. To me, at least right now,
it >takes me somewhere that I don't want to go.
Don't you go there when you close your eyes at night? Or do you manage
to control those images which you see in your dreams?
---
Please DO NOT carbon me on list replies. I'll get my copy from the list.
Sean B. Straw / Professional Software Engineering
Post Box 2395 / San Rafael, CA 94912-2395
EdMole_myope.com
I am working those days, as well as 60 other artits in my close neighbourhood,
on the preparation of 3 days of visits artit's loft.
A Copyleft installation :
=AB=A0petits soucis cutan=E9s=A0=BB
(small cutaneous worries)
[excerpt at : http://www.myope.com/microsites/alapeau/]
As a Copyleft [http://www.myope.com/copyleft/lal.html] I ask for 10$ in exchange
of = a cd with over 2000 pict on that matter, and 10 more for 55 minutes
of music = i generated on a cd. There is no restriction of copies. Then
you are abble to do anything with those materials, according to the
license.
I was wondering if I could print today's exchanges and apply them on
my walls.=20
It my time to rest a little. The opening is on friday at 2pm UT.
EdMole
robbinblue_yahoo.com
Interesting... I think alot of people will have a similiar idea. I certainly
have been thinking of how I can incorporate all of these messages(from
multiple lists) into my next piece. To be honest, I don't know how I
feel about my words being used in a textual piece of art, especially
in light of the fact that that I am getting off of this list as soon
as the request goes through.
Of course, my words are certainly pretty boring when compared with others...
:) Probably not the most interesting of the lot... I guess I would need
to understand better how it would be used?
robin
robbinblue_yahoo.com
www.robinart.com
EdMole_myope.com --- EdMole wrote:
> ============================================================ > Get
your FREE online credit report from ConsumerInfo.Com! > ConsumerInfo.Com
makes staying on top of your credit history > fast and easy. Gain peace
of mind and take control of the > accuracy of your credit report today!
Click Here! > http://click.topica.com/caaadnsbz8RvVbAuBaDa/CustomMade
> ============================================================ > > >
I am working those days, as well as 60 other artits in my close > neighbourhood,
on the preparation of 3 days of visits artit's loft. > > A Copyleft
installation : > =AB=A0petits soucis cutan=E9s=A0=BB > (small cutaneous
worries) > [excerpt at : http://www.myope.com/microsites/alapeau/] >
As a Copyleft [http://www.myope.com/copyleft/lal.html] I ask for 10$ in > exchange
of = > a > cd with over 2000 pict on that matter, and 10 more for 55
minutes > of music = > i > generated on a cd. There is no restriction
of copies. Then you are > abble to > do anything with those materials,
according to the license. > > I was wondering if I could print today's
exchanges and apply them > on my > walls.=20 > > > It my time to rest
a little. The opening is on friday at 2pm UT. > EdMole
=====
robbinblue_yahoo.com
www.robinart.com
EdMole_myope.com
And after 10 years of battle,
Talibans beat the USRR
with the help of USA
who gave them weapons.
No $$$?
"i'll give you opium".
EdMole
EdMole_myope.com
Couldn't you imaging to agrue with some friends or community?
> > Just thought that I would mention that there's a forum > on Yahoo
for the discussion of last weeks tragedy. It's > been set up specifically
for this, so it'd be more > appropriate than this list...
Of course this event affect my life every minute. And I really perfers
living without the fears for the next years.
EdMole
xxxxxx_esatclear.ie
> Couldn't you imaging to agrue with some > friends or community?
Can't make sense of this sentence!? What did you mean to say?
-Ross
thejordans_mediaone.net
Ed
I encourage you to continue. I do not believe that most of us Americans
care to listen. were that it were otherwise. I spent a few minutes this
afternoon reading the names of the people on the 4 planes. Very powerful,
and I'm wondering how to use them in a proper piece.
Lee
> > And after 10 years of battle, > > Talibans beat the USRR > > with
the help of USA > > who gave them weapons. > > No $$$? > > "i'll give
you opium". > > EdMolee
ileofview_aol.com
I can't let this one go without saying ONE MORE THING. I'm glad my father
is dead so he doesn't have to hear all this. He put his life on the
line to save ENGLAND and FRANCE and countless other countries from the
savageries of Hitler and Nazi Germany. So what do all the politically
correct, bleeding heart liberals say ? "Petition Against War." I "heard"
that France has decided to remain neutral on this. How nice. We saved
their sorry asses from Hitler and they're turning their backs on us
now. So much for GRATITUDE . I lost my uncle in WWII, and stand to lose
my son, but that is all a sacrifice I must make in the quest to save
freedom for my future grandchildren. that's it. I won't say another
word.
Marybeth on Long Island, NY
lee_leeharrington.com
Hello fellow webartist list members.
Let me be very clear. Cease and disist immediately from sending any
more messages to this list regarding the recent horrificly tragic events
in New York and Washington.
I will not tolerate this list being used for any purpose other than
discussions on art.
And yes, if it does not stop, I will dis-engage the list.
List owner,
Lee Harrington
human_f11.org
damn was just thinking the same exact thing.
i have been in an odd sort of humming and detached sort of funk since
this happened... wandering around ny a lot, looking at people's faces...
too many hours of reading bad news...
but normalcy and 14-hour days are returning.
anyway, here is my vague channeling of what this past week has been:
http://www.unfail.com
carrots
f
//
robbinblue_yahoo.com |0.1300007553.1294090297-738719082-1000828357_topica.com
|01/09/18 11:47 |robin
> Kind of ironic that an act of terrorism generates more discussion,
> argument, opinions, etc than any other else I've seen on this > list....
> > Just an idea: Take this energy and actually use it for something
> positive! (maybe art?) > > just my two cents > robin > robbinblue_yahoo.com
> www.robinart.com
jmiles222_home.com
At 9:59 PM -0400 9/18/01, ileofview_aol.com wrote:
>============================================================ >Join
memolink.com and get FREE gift certificates to >Wal*Mart, Target, Best
Buy, Olive Garden and more! >http://click.topica.com/caaac5Rbz8RvVa9aCH4a/Memolink
>============================================================ > >I can't
let this one go without saying ONE MORE THING. I'm glad my father is
>dead so he doesn't have to hear all this. He put his life on the line
to >save ENGLAND and FRANCE and countless other countries from the savageries
of >Hitler and Nazi Germany. So what do all the politically correct,
bleeding >heart liberals say ? "Petition Against War." I "heard" that
France has >decided to remain neutral on this. How nice. We saved their
sorry asses >from Hitler and they're turning their backs on us now.
So much for GRATITUDE >. I lost my uncle in WWII, and stand to lose
my son, but that is all a >sacrifice I must make in the quest to save
freedom for my future >grandchildren. that's it. I won't say another
word. > >Marybeth on Long Island, NY
Good, because if you remember your history the US wouldn't be the US
if it weren't for the French. Who in the hell do you think gave us the
statue of liberty? So when it comes for saving sorry asses, they saved
ours in our war against Britian in the Revolutionary war.
Jeff M
--
jmiles222_home.com
At 7:09 PM -0700 9/18/01, lee_leeharrington.com wrote:
>============================================================ >Get your
FREE online credit report from ConsumerInfo.Com! >ConsumerInfo.Com makes
staying on top of your credit history >fast and easy. Gain peace of
mind and take control of the >accuracy of your credit report today!
Click Here! >http://click.topica.com/caaadnsbz8RvVa9aCH4a/CustomMade
>============================================================ > > >Hello
fellow webartist list members. > >Let me be very clear. Cease and disist
immediately >from sending any more messages to this list regarding >the
recent horrificly tragic events in New York and >Washington. > >I will
not tolerate this list being used for any >purpose other than discussions
on art. > >And yes, if it does not stop, I will dis-engage the >list.
I'm sorry you feel this way Lee.
Art is a reflection of life. And in my feelings the events of the past
week are very influential to people's lives and will also influence
their art.
I've been on this list for quite a while, but didn't sign up for the
purpose of only discussing brush size or pixel definition.
I'm not going to unsubscribe yet, but I see it might be necessary in
the future.
Jeff M
--
EdMole_myope.com
People on the list do not want anything but art. we are living an important
turn in History, the Y2K, Europe, Technology, change humans, our way
to think about us and living, etc. That might be a part of artist's
job to have that in mind.
I know some of you, we read each others for few years now, and it is
nice to exchange ideas with people I already know, better than any stranger
I meet in some bar and have a discusion with. With my friends we can
go much further in the arguments.
That do not means we are always agree : THIS is discussion.
EdMole
>> Couldn't you imaging to agrue with some >> friends or community?
> > Can't make sense of this sentence!? What did you mean to > say?
EdMole_myope.com
this is on topic
EdMole
---------- From: info_e-flux.com Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 07:29:53 -0500
To: press_e-flux.com Subject: NYC Tuesday, September 18, 2001 Electronic
Flux Corporation ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Marian Goodman Gallery 24 West 57th Street P: 212/977-7160 Gerhard
Richter: Paintings 1996-2001runs through October 27, with an accompanying
catalogue with essay by Benjamin Buchloh. Contact: Lissa McClure Lissa_mariangoodman.com
http://www.mariangoodman.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Andrew Kreps Gallery 516 West 20th St Hiroshi Sunairi "Buddha"
September 6 - October 6, 2001 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Leo Koenig Gallery leokoenig_hotmail.com Dear Friends, We just
want everyone to know that we are in shock over this devastating tragedy,
but safe, as we hope all of you are. Since the gallery was fairly close
to the WTC, we will not be there for a while. Thank you for your email
and calls, your words are a source of comfort and encouragement. Take
care, be well, Leo, Lizzy, Amy, and Ieva ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- All of us at The Armory Show are shocked and horrified at the
devastation, suffering and loss of life visited on our great city. These
are our neighbors, friends and loved ones. Our thoughts are with those
touched personally by this senseless tragedy and to our civic leaders
and the many rescue workers who demonstrate minute by minute extraordinary
heroism. Like most New Yorkers, we are heartened in the confidence that
our city will comeback and rebuild, both physically and emotionally.
The Armory Show intends to be a part of that renaissance. The Armory
Show 2002 www.thearmoryshow.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Kent Gallery 67 Prince Street New York, N.Y. 10012 e: kent_kentgallery.com
JENNIFER MONICK will have an opening for the artist Friday Evening,
September 14 from 7 to 9 p.m. The show will continue through October
20th. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Artists Space contact stjaden_artistsspace.org (212) 226-3970
x 25 We have re-opened today. Main Gallery: Purloined Architecture and
Design Project Series: 2 x 4, Museum of the Ordinary Project Space:
María Alós, Incognito Exhibition open: September 6- October 13, 2001
purloined : Sophie Calle, Lilah Freedland, Nancy Hwang, Nikki S. Lee,
Lisa Levy, Guy Overfelt, Mark Wallinger, Eric Wesley, Curated by Christine
Y. Kim ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Postmasters, West 19th Street & 10th Avenue, New York, NY 10011
T: 212 727 3323 F: 212 229 2829 E: postmasters_thing.net Wolfgang Staehle
"2001" on view until October 6, 2001 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Nicole Klagsbrun Gallery 526 West 26th Street 2 fl. NYC NY 10001
Tel: 212-243-3335 e: gallery_nicoleklagsbrun.com JOHN PILSON New work,
NANCY DAVENPORT the apartments September 6 – October 6, 2001 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Baumgartner Gallery 418 West 15th New York, NY 1011 Tel.212 633
2276 e: Baumgartnr_aol.com Fernanda Gomes An installation, from Sept.
8. through Oct 17.2001 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Danese Gallery contact: Kate Sheerin kate_danesegallery.com Our
opening for Theresa Chong: Paintings and Works on Vellum has been postponed
till Thursday, September 20, 2001 from 6-8 PM. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Henry Urbach Architecture, 526 West 26th street, NYC, NY 10001
contact: (212) 627-0974 hua_mindspring.com An Te Liu Condition John
deFazio Starbong on view through October 20th ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- ESSO Gallery, 211 West 28th St. New York 10001 tel 212-560-9728
esso_spacelab.net http://www.essogallery.com Due to the nature of Tuesday's
tragic events; in respect for the many people who died in the attack
at the World Trade Center, there will be no reception for the opening
of Barbara Pollack's show at Esso Gallery today, Wednesday, September
12, 2001. The exhibition will begin "in silence" the next first working
day. We are sorry, shocked and deeply saddened by this tragedy. Our
thoughts go out to the victims and their families.Much Love to You All.
Jennifer Bacon and Filippo Fossati ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Galeria Ramis Barquet contact: virgilio_ramisbarquet.com LEDA
CATUNDA "Soft Paintings" September 13 - October 20 Hours: Tuesday -
Friday 10 - 6, Saturday 12 - 5:30 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- TANYA BONAKDAR GALLERY 521 W 21 Street New York, 10011 t: 212
414 4144 e: mail_tanyabonakdargallery.com current show: SANDRA CINTO,
THROUGH OCTOBER 13 We are here and working. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Pierogi, until further notice contact address will be: susanswenson_earthlink.net
Current show: Ward Shelley Cube Interactive installation and video project:
a sculptural environment for recording video action portraits September
7 — October 8 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Curt Marcus Gallery 578 Broadway NYC 10013 (212) 226-3200 info_curtmarcusgallery.com
http://www.curtmarcusgallery.com Michel François Autoportrait Contre
Nature On View September 18 - October 13, 2001 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Alexander and Bonin 132 10th Avenue New York, NY 10011 e: gallery_alexanderandbonin.com
Ree Morton Drawings, Signs and Beaux 1974-1976 September 5 - October
13, 2001 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Momenta Art, 72 Berry St, Bkln, NY, 11211. 718.218.8058 http://www.momentaart.org.
momenta_momentaart.org Sept. 7- Oct. 15, 2001 Howard McCalebb and Amanda
Trager Oct. 26 –Nov. 26, 2001 Karen Henderson and Hidenori Kondo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Charles Cowles Gallery 537 West 24th Street New York, NY 10011
212-925-3500 p 212-925-3501 f info_cowlesgallery.com Charles Arnoldi:
New Paintings through Oct. 13 Marsha Burns: Recent Photographs through
Oct. 6 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Art Resources Transfer 210 11th Avenue #403 212 691 5956 email
artretran_earthlink.net Contact Bill Bartman or Andrew Baron Current
one person exhibitions: Steve Keister, Petra Gerschner, Lisa Endriss,
Michael Miller, Alejandro Cesarco ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- New gallery - Maccarone will open this October as planned. The
gallery will open with a site specific installtion by Swiss artist Christoph
Buechel (he was in this year's P.S. 1 International Studio Program).
At the moment the plan is to open on October 21 and run the show through
the Christmas holidays. The gallery will be located at 45 Canal Street
and the phone number is 212 431 4977. The gallery's email is kitchen_maccarone.net
and the website is www.maccarone.net. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Kagan Martos Gallery 515 Broadway, ste. 5BF New York, NY 10012
tel. 212 343 4293 fax 212 343 4292 info_kaganmartos.com Robert Kitchen,
"Rough and Religious" Opening Thursday, September 20, 6-8 pm. September
20 - October 20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Nohra Haime Gallery: DeLoss McGraw: Alice in Wonderland. The original
gouaches for the illustrations of the new Harper Collins publication
of Lewis Carroll's book 41 East 57th Street New York, NY 1002 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Paul Kasmin Gallery 293 Tenth Avenue New York, NY 10001 212 563
4474 tel 212 563 4494 fax Santi Moix The Pontoon Paintings 8 September
- 6 October, 2001 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Parkett Publishers 155 Ave. of the Americas New York, NY 10013
Tel: 212 673 2660 Fax: 212 271 0704 http://www.parkettart.com Parkett
62 The new issue of Parkett featuring collaborations and editions wtih
Tacita Dean, Thomas Demand, and John Wesley will be out to subscribers
in early October, and in book stores in mid-to-late October. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Gagosian Gallery 980 Madison Avenue New York, NY 10021 tel.212.744.2313
info_gagosian.com http://www.gagosian.com We will be opening September
20 from 6-8 pm with Robert Therrien's new drawings and sculptures. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Jack Shainman Gallery 513 West 20th Street New York, NY 10011
(212) 645-1701 fax (212) 645-8316 jshainman_aol.com We are currently
Showing: Elizabeth Crawford "The Ball Rolling" September 7 - October
6, 2001 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Gale Gates et al. tel.718-522-4596. e: info_galegates.org Due
to this week's tragedy, GAle GAtes has postponed our scheduled opening
party on Saturday night, and the gallery's MONTREAL BRAINWARE exhibition,
indefinately. Our visiting artists from Quebec (SAT) have been evacuated
to Canada; we hope to have them return to New York to open the installation
in the coming week. We are awaiting more information from Quebec New
York 2001, the event's producer, and will keep you posted. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Martinez Gallery 37 Greenpoint Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11222 T: 718.706.0606
staff_martinezgallery.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- rhizome.org is okay--all of our staff and interns are safe. i
am in the office this morning (thursday). our web site and email lists
are back up and running after a short crash which seems to have been
related to the attack (dti, our isp, is below canal). the discussion
on the rhizome raw email list has been really heartening. best, mark
http://www.rhizome.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Casey Kaplan Gallery contact:murielquancard_hotmail.com Dear friends,
Firstly, I am sending my deepest sympathy to those who lost a loved
one or a colleague in the catastrophe. Then I would like to address
a message to our friends who are in other cities and countries. Here
it is… I became aware that it was difficult for you to get an idea of
what means being in New York these days. You saw images, you heard commentaries
but you must wonder how people feel and you are probably worried. What
is happening in New York is unspeakable. At that point the only thing
to calm down and clear our minds is optimism. We need you to bring this
to us. We need you to help us continuing working because we want life
to keep on going. Because we deeply love life and we love art. An impressive
part of the city has been destroyed however the art venues and galleries
essentially located in Soho, Chelsea, Uptown Manhattan and Brooklyn
are still operational. I think it is important for us who are safe and
who still have a place to work to be responsible and active. We want
to keep supporting the artists, preparing exhibitions in the United
States and aboard. We need to keep working as we used to. Our show with
John Chilver started very well last week. Lots of galleries just opened
new exhibitions. It is important for people to see them, to write on
them, to appreciate them. Tomorrow Casey, Chana, Camille and I will
be working. It's going to be a little chaotic. Please don't be astonished
if things seem sometimes weird. Don't forget that here we are in a very
disturbing reality. E-mails work well. The fax and the phone lines at
the gallery are not too bad. Let's communicate. I decided to write this
tonight after seeing some people in distress in New York and some other
very motivated. I'm sure that lots of galleries and museum expect to
hear from you. We want to improve the general situation. We want to
make every day, every minute better. This message comes from the heart.
Thank you. Muriel ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Electronic Flux Corporation http://www.e-flux.com
EdMole_myope.com
> >> save ENGLAND and FRANCE and countless other countries from the
savageries of > > Good, because if you remember your history the US
wouldn't be
You (half of north amrica) are what ??? Like many people, most of you
escaped from disaters, diseases, wars, etc from Europe, Asia, Africa.
Your arriving in America might not have been so easy.
If you forgot where you came from, why do I read about God ??? He is
older than the poor 182500 days after C.Colombus.
EdMole
blanken_hctc.net
I don't know what papers the Jordans read, but the following was published
again this morning:
"Taliban: It's Holy War Afghanistan's ruling Taliban has called for
a jihad, or holy war, against the United States. The BBC reported today
it had monitored the chilling declaration during a broadcast on the
Taliban's Voice of Shariat radio. "I would like to tell my people that
our jihad will be formally resuming against the Americans," the deputy
chairman of the Taliban Council of Ministers, Mullah Mohammad Hasan
Akhond, said in the speech broadcast in Afghanistan late last night.
The official also denied the "terror attacks" at the World Trade Center
and Pentagon had been committed by the Taliban or Osama bin Laden. Today,
the Taliban's Bakhtar News Agency began issuing warnings of a possible
U.S. invasion. "Stay united and prepare for jihad against U.S. invaders,"
the news agency reported."
Now, as many of our members have requested including the moderator,
let's stop this noisome discussion.
Yes, politics and war have their influence on art, but ranting and raving
over petitioning for peace is flogging a dead horse and not suitable
for this list.
Paula Blankenhorn
At 04:14 PM 09/18/2001 -0700, Lee & Alexandra wrote: >============================================================
>Join memolink.com and get FREE gift certificates to >Wal*Mart, Target,
Best Buy, Olive Garden and more! >http://click.topica.com/caaac5Rbz8RvVbAgbUwa/Memolink
>============================================================ > >Once
more an uninformed American speaks, showing all that he does not >understand
what he is reading. The article CLEARLY states quote: >Officials of
the Islamic movement moved quickly to say that the deputy >chairman
of the Taliban Council of Ministers, Mullah Mohammad Hassan >Akhond,
was not in a position to declare a holy war, or jihad, and a >final
decision lay with a council of clerics due to convene this week. > >Yes,
I only liooked at AP and the NY Times online. Since they don't have
>any real information I guess that I should change my reading. > >Lee
>> >> > Where did you get the information that the Taliban has declared
war? I >> > can't find it on any major news services. >> >> http://reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=topnews&StoryID=227886
>> >> Maybe you should read a newspaper before you resume spewing your
idiocy.o
animateden_mac.com
This commentary is from Tamim, a writer and columnist in San Francisco,
who comes from Afghanistan. Please do circulate.
I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the
Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would
mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this
atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What
else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether
we "have the belly to do what must be done." And I thought about the
issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and
even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's
going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all
looks from where I'm standing.
I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no
doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity
in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters.
But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even
the government of Afghanistan.
The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan
in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan.
When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think
Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan," think "the Jews
in the concentration camps."
It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity.
They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if
someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the
rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country.
Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The
answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering.
A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000
disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food.
There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these
widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the
farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons
why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.
We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone
Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already.
Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses?
Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their
hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine
and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would
only stir the rubble of earlier bombs.
Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan,
only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd
slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled
orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs.
But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike
against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would
only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the
people they've been raping all this time. So what else is there? What
can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The
only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When
people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're
thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having
the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people.
Let's pull our heads out of the sand.
What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because
some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin
Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any
troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they
let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first.
Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're
flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.
And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program.
That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches
and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would
beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize
the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the
west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with
nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view.
He's probably wrong, in the end the West would win, whatever that would
mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just
theirs but ours.
Who has the belly for that?
Bin Laden does.
Anyone else?
Tamim Ansary
animateden_mac.com
Ed,
I don't normally respond to people "off-list" but I was touched and
moved by the "petition against war". I for one do not want to remember
September 11, 2001 as the day World War III started. I have sent the
petition to everyone I could think of. I even got in trouble at work
for expressing my views. I just wanted to say thanks and send you this
message someone else sent me back up the view that war is not the answer.
-Den Dotson
animateden_mac.com
animateden_aol.com
http://homepage.mac.com/animateden
den.dotson_partecinc.com
To allow people to have a place to discuss the issues associated with
their artwork and the tragedies of last week I have created this e-mail
list and invite all to come and discuss their art and views associated
with the recent events. This should give people an "on-topic" place
for these discussions so as not to interrupt the flow on other lists.
http://www.topica.com/lists/ArtAndTragedy/
List Name Art and Tragedy in the Wake of Sept 11 (Art and Tragedy)
Purpose: This list is a place to discuss the ramifications and alternatives
we face after the tragedies of September 11, 2001. The emphasis is on
artists discussing their response and sharing their artwork associated
with their thoughts.
Owner: Den Dotson
-Den Dotson
animateden_mac.com
animateden_aol.com
http://homepage.mac.com/animateden
BLOBASSO_popcouncil.org
Are you saying our government accepted opium in exchange for the weapons
we supplied Afghanistan?
Barbara
-----Original Message----- From: EdMole [mailto:EdMole_myope.com] Sent:
Tuesday, September 18, 2001 9:23 PM To: webartists-list Subject: 12
years ago
============================================================ Get 11
Free CDs, with nothing more to buy, ever! Simply join BMG Music Service
and you can choose your FREE CDs with membership. It's 100% RISK FREE!
http://click.topica.com/caaadbmbz8RvVbAuJqPa/BMG ============================================================
And after 10 years of battle, Talibans beat the USRR with the help of
USA who gave them weapons. No $$$? "i'll give you opium". EdMole
darkmonsta_hotmail.com
Ed...
I just wanted to thankyou for posting details of the petition on the
webartists mailing list. Not only have i added my name to those who
wish to prevent war, i have forwarded it to everyone i know. It appears
to me that you are one of the few genuine artists on the list, prepared
to express freely and promote discussion around art and subjects associated
to our lives. I fear the objections which arose after your post are
a symbol of the narrowmindedness which will quite possibly cause the
situation to escalate into what we both fear. I pray that you continue
to be a force of good in all that you do, and that the people of the
world have enough strength to see that violence only perpetuates violence.
Regards
Dan Wise
SimonCraigLee_aol.com
I would not sign a petition against war with the enemies of democracy.
I personally am too angry at the terrorists. I wish they all had one
throat so that I could strangle them more quickly.
That said, I respect and support Ed Mole's using this list for discussing
this vital matter. You want relevance? A contempory German composer
stated that the 9/11 WTC was the greatest "work of art" he had ever
seen. How's that for appalling tastelessness? How's that for the fusing
of art and politics?
If anyone wants to quit this list and bury their heads in the sand,
so be it. You have to admit, though, the list was pretty dead before
Ed jump-started it.
Dennis C. Lee
Jarvo_aol.com
I wonder what happened to most of the building staff that cleaned and
maintained the twin towers. They would have been on all the floors early
in the morning before most of the other folks got to work. Is their
union tracking the numbers? Who speaks for them? You know what the demographics
of that workforce looked like. Low to moderate income, black & Hispanic.
Was talking to one of my neighbors who works at Naval Research in that
capacity. We were both thinking the same thing. Must have been quite
a few folks. Have not seen their pictures or lives profiled in the media.
What was the impact on Harlem, New Jersey communities ,etc. Just wondering
about these other Americans.
----------
with
the help of some of a webartistlist's members
EdMole-2001
